This week we sit down with Kenneth Havens with A-1 McDuffie Sanitation located in Semmes, AL.
Listen to this week's episode to hear his story about how he got into the sanitation business.
Produced by Blue Fish in Mobile, Alabama.
Transcript:
Keneth Havens:
Hi, my name's Kenneth Havens, and I own A-1 McDuffie Sanitation.
Marcus Neto:
Well, it's good to have you here, Kenneth.
Kenneth Havens:
I appreciate you inviting me on a podcast.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah. So full disclosure, we've done some work for Kenneth, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't... we're here to talk positively about everybody, and so he's getting the same treatment that everybody else does. But I want to get started by you telling us a little bit about who you are? Where you're from? Did you go, or where did you go to high school? Did you go to college? Are you married? Just give us some of the backstory of Kenneth.
Kenneth Havens:
All right. Cool. Obviously my name's Kenneth Havens, I own A-1 McDuffie Sanitation in Semmes, Alabama. I went to high school, at Satsuma High School to ninth grade, and got injured playing flag football, and the doctor would not release me to play sports. So after that, I homeschooled. And so I started like 40, 80 hour work weeks in the ninth grade.
Marcus Neto:
Jeez.
Kenneth Havens:
So one of my first jobs that I had was... my grandpa gave me an opportunity, I was cutting grass. So I cut grass at his house, and at the end of the day, he come in and he said, "Hey, I can pay you, where I can give you the lawnmower that you cut my grass with." And I made a decision at that point. I was like, "I see the opportunity for the investment." So through that, I started at seven, eight years old, like cutting people's grass in the neighborhood. So grew up at Satsuma, I'm married. My wife's name is Kristy Havens, and we've been married now since 2010. So I got married at 21 years old, and we've got two kids, one, three, one, six, and love my family to death.
Marcus Neto:
That's awesome.
Kenneth Havens:
They really pushed me, super supportive.
Marcus Neto:
When you look back, would you consider yourself a good student or were you? God, because I was not, I would just go on record. I was not a good student, so I was ready to get out of school. But would you have considered yourself a good student or?
Kenneth Havens:
Funny story? I would say no. No. I would say, yes.
Marcus Neto:
So let me say anytime somebody says ‘funny story’ after you asked them that question, the answer is going to be no.
Kenneth Havens:
No. Absolutely no. Here's the Story. So I feel like I had ADD so bad in school, to the point where my mom had a parent teacher meeting, and the teacher said, "Kenneth is a great student." And so the answer is yes, but the problem was, we would be doing English and I would pull out my Science book, and she would say, "What are you doing? Why are you not doing your classwork?" I'm like, "I am doing my classwork."
Marcus Neto:
Just not doing this classwork.
Kenneth Havens:
She was like, "We are doing English." And I'm like, "I don't really like English. I like science." So, I would say no. I did not go to college. I kind of took the workforce blue collar tour. Worked at Bender Shipyard for a little while. I've had quite a few different jobs growing up, but I would say that each one of them gave me the opportunity to build off of, and I've kind of used a little bit of each place, in the job and what I'm doing today.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah, no, that's cool. Your story is not so different than mine. Teachers would always pull me out of the classroom and like, "I don't understand why you don't just apply yourself. You're such a smart person, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "Because I don't find what you're talking about interesting."
Kenneth Havens:
I don't like any of this.
Marcus Neto:
Give me something that I'm interested in-
Kenneth Havens:
Can we go to lunch?
Marcus Neto:
And maybe I'm focused, but yeah. Now you mentioned your first job cutting grass, and talking about how your grandfather gave you the ability to either get the mower, or get paid and you chose getting the mower, but outside of that, because I would consider that an answer to this question, but outside of that, were there any lessons that you still remember from that, that you carry with you to this day?
Kenneth Havens:
Well, I think that through that, what ended up happening, my sisters kind of have a funny story, but I decided I kind of... I didn't really have like a lot of entrepreneurs in my family. My grandparents started the garbage business, but outside of that, it was kind of in that era, starting a business wasn't really cool at that point. So I remember my sisters, they wanted money to go, I think to the skating ring that Friday night or something. And I was like, "Hey, I've got three yards lined up. If both of y'all want to come and cut grass, I'll teach you." So I took me a lawn chair and set it up in the yard and I got both sisters, and I was like, "Look, I pride myself in cutting straight lines. So you go down, and bring the lawn mower back and you pass it off, and she'll take the lawnmower down and pass it off."
Kenneth Havens:
And I was over there drinking lemonade. And so it was kind of like at that point I was like, "Dang, this is what it feels like to be a boss." I'd realized I had no clue what I was doing, but that's like at seven, eight, nine years old. So I think there's always been something inside of me, that's wanted to be in business. There's been something that through that, would kind of be my quote unquote first job. That ended up leading to a man, a buddy, ended up having kind of like a side hustle on the-
Marcus Neto:
Lawn care business?
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah, where we were making like three or four grand, a weekend cutting grass. We were really getting it. So...
Marcus Neto:
That is crazy to think of. Because I mean, this is obviously not at seven or eight years old.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah.
Marcus Neto:
So what age?
Kenneth Havens:
16, 17, 15, [inaudible 00:05:50].
Marcus Neto:
So making a couple $1,000. And even to make a couple $1,000 a month, at that age, would be something impressive, but now you've already said your grandparents started the business. Tell us a little bit about how they got started, but then also the passing of the business to you, give us some background there.
Kenneth Havens:
Okay, sure. So, my grandpa worked at Del Chance grocery store, and he was a truck driver. They sold the company to Jitney jungle, I think at the time. And they had the opportunity to roll their stocks over, or to take their money. But if they took their money out, they were pretty much terminated. He didn't have a good feeling about it. I think he had like 20 grand that he... so, he took that money and invested it into a garbage business. He said that he worked on the back of a trash truck whenever he was younger, and it just something in the back of his mind, always just kind of stuck, like, "Hey, I can be a garbage man." And so he randomly decided to start a garbage business. So it's the same grandpa that gave me the lawn care opportunity. I remember laying in bed and spending the night at their house, and he would try to get up in the morning to slip out, but like I wanted to ride in the truck.
Marcus Neto:
Nice.
Kenneth Havens:
And so when they first bought the business back in 1998, I wasn't tall enough to reach the handles up on the side, to be able to hold on to the truck to work. And he let me pick up five or six stops in the back. So it was something that, as I got older... it was something that every summer, I would come and work for him.
Marcus Neto:
[inaudible 00:07:26] with the business.
Kenneth Havens:
And I always said, "I don't want to be a driver, I want to be the guy that works the back. It's boring sitting up there driving, be out, exercise and doing stuff. So it didn't take long to realize that that's not what I wanted to do. So I went through the progression of-
Marcus Neto:
I can't imagine why. It's hot down here.
Kenneth Havens:
For sure.
Marcus Neto:
And people's trash stinks.
Kenneth Havens:
It does not smell good.
Marcus Neto:
I guess I was going to add, let me take a tangent. Do you ever get used to the smell?
Kenneth Havens:
Oh, what's really strange, is me and the guys that's been in it forever, you can't smell it. So we had a Christmas party up at the office, and I had to ask, I would bring the office staff out, "Does the shop smell okay? Can you smell it? We sprayed all this stuff, does it smell okay?" And they're like... because it smells good.
Marcus Neto:
You are asking the wrong people.
Kenneth Havens:
It smells like money, but it's definitely a blue collar job. And that's one thing that I've really enjoyed about this, is I like to get out and to be able to work hard, but also like the marketing side of it as well. You ask about the transition, they kind of got started in it. I kind of worked my way up from the back, to the driver, to be in a part-time mechanic, and then working a few days in the office. Whenever I came into the office, we weren't in quick books, everything was done in a paper check book, we didn't have a billing system, and we were really capped of what we could do, based off the infrastructure and stuff that we had. My grandparents, they made it due to dedication and hard work.
Marcus Neto:
Hustle.
Kenneth Havens:
It was it. They had a hustle inside of them. My grandpa will be 80 in March, and my grandmother is I think, like 76, 77, and she still will not leave the office. She's dedicated to it. She said that she would be answering the phones up to like 30 minutes after she passed away. She loves it. And the people, the customers love her, so it's really neat.
Marcus Neto:
That's awesome.
Kenneth Havens:
I was going into the military, I was so lost. I had worked quite a few different jobs, but I wanted to do something bigger than just, you know what I'm saying? Just a profession, doing a job. And I went and told my family. I was like, "Hey, me and a buddy is leaving for [inaudible 00:09:54], to go to Paris Island, July six, 2008. And they came and they were like, "Why are you doing it?" I was like, "Well, maybe to go to college. They said that they'll pay for me to go to college." And they were like, "Look, if you want to go to college, we'll pay for it, but I want you to come work here." And through that, I never made the decision to end up going to college through it. But I started working there in I think, 2009.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
And I've, I've been there. I've been there ever since.
Marcus Neto:
Ever since.
Kenneth Havens:
It was a really weird transition because they hired me to come in and run the business the way that they were running the business. But there was something on the inside of me that, I was bound and determined, not leave it the way that I found it. Because I felt like they thought they hired me for one thing, but I really felt like they had hired me for something different. So there was this... it was kind of not really a power struggle, but it was this, I wanted to honor them, and what they were doing, but I felt like the best way to do that was to not really listen to the way that they were saying that they wanted it done.
Marcus Neto:
Well, I mean the best way that you can honor somebody in that situation is to make sure that the business continues-
Kenneth Havens:
That's right.
Marcus Neto:
... and not run it into the ground.
Kenneth Havens:
That's right.
Marcus Neto:
And you and I have had discussions. So if, grandma and grandpa are listening to this, I know your heart and all of this was to modernize it, in order to make it succeed, and also know that it's going to be around for a really long time. And so I think the intentions with which you're handling it, I think at least how you've communicated those things to me, it would be very clear that you're trying to do the best, that you can for the business, in doing those things so. Now, do you remember the first... and this would be after they've kind of handed off the business to you, that the first time that you made a change, or you did something, and you thought, okay, there might be something to this. Something that affirmed your decision to kind of stay in the business, run it.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah. So, in 2015, we made the decision to go with garbage cans. Everyone had always purchased their own, and we made the decision. So that was something that neither one of them was really on board for, because they just kept telling me which it was true, you're opening up a door, that you're not going to be able to close. Once you start it, it's a very expensive road, and all the details that went into it. But I looked at it and I started just running the numbers on it. And I just told them, "Hey, if we don't do it, we're going to die."
Marcus Neto:
Right.
Kenneth Havens:
We are decreasing faster than we're accelerating. And they were kind of at a place in their life where they didn't really have the energy anymore to go after it and get it.
Marcus Neto:
Right.
Kenneth Havens:
And so, we had made the decision to get garbage cans and we're like, "We can have blue ones, or we could have red ones, or we could have, green ones like everybody else, or we can have pink ones. And when they took off, they took off. I couldn't keep them in stock. And I started looking back at the track, and that was kind of the turning point in our company. That was the turning point, the first steps to go in from like a mom and pop, one person organization, to building something that we're working on building today.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah. No, it was really cool. And just to kind of highlight, pink is obviously a nod to breast cancer.
Kenneth Havens:
That's right.
Marcus Neto:
And so I know that percentage of your revenue goes to... as a donation to, fight breast cancer. I don't know that I've ever answered. What was the impetus behind that? Is there somebody in the family that has some issues there?
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah, my aunt. Actually the anniversary of her death was yesterday, but she actually died of cancer. It wasn't breast cancer, but it was kind of that. I don't know of one person that has not been affected by cancer, by breast cancer.
Marcus Neto:
That's right.
Kenneth Havens:
And it was one of those things where, to me, it's not... we kind of got in this thing where it was like, we were a breast cancer company at one point. And the thing was through it... really like where most of everything that we do stems from, is the culture of our company, is we love people. Out of everything that we do, I think that it's our responsibility to not make the most money that we could possibly make, but make the biggest impact for the people that one, work for us, and the people that we work for. I believe that with a small company, with small business, you're part... like to me, the way that I look at it, as you're partnering with me. We have 6,500 customers currently, subscription-based customers that decided to do business with us. They could've picked anybody. So it's kind of one of those things where if people are going to give to us, and give us the opportunity, and they're making an investment, I want to make sure it's the best investment that they can make on the platform that we stand on.
Marcus Neto:
I just like to point out for those of you that are listening, that he runs a garbage collection service and his focus is on caring for people. So, I think that's absolutely phenomenal because I think in anything that you do, there's a person element to that. Whether it's your people that work for you, or the customers or clients that you serve. And so oftentimes people lose sight of that. And that's when they start to lose their way, because making an impact on people is first and foremost the most important thing so. Now, if you were talking to someone that wanted to get started in running their own business, what's the one bit of wisdom that you would impart to them?
Kenneth Havens:
I think the most important part of business to me, the one thing that I would stress is treat everyone with respect, because you don't ever know who you're sitting across the table from. I believe that the biggest thing that I've learned about business period, has been the power of networking. And to be genuine. Because going back to the people aspect, it's important to me that before I ask you for... for you to invest your time in me, then I'm willing to invest my time into you. And I have seen the power of networking so strong over the past couple of years, that through it, I don't believe that without a network that you could really run a successful business, unless you have one of those like kind of fly by night ideas that just [inaudible 00:16:20].
Marcus Neto:
Blows up.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah, absolutely. Now it is... I mean, I don't know your network is your net worth is something that gets passed around so often, I think we think of it as just like, Oh, it's just something that you just kind of throw around, but the reality is like, your network is your net worth, for sure. So, is there anything that you're currently working on in your business that you can share with us?
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah, so we are, like through the idea of going from a mom and pop organization to like being something substantial that could, that's scalable, we're working right now on setting a lot of positions in place, being very clear and specific with what [inaudible 00:17:04] are. And so on the inside, work on a couple of city contracts. That's going to be huge when they hit. And so I'm really excited about that. I've been working with city council members, with two different cities, and it looks very promising, and that will be a huge step for our company.
Marcus Neto:
Interesting. Very cool. Now, when you look to the business world... and I mean the larger business world, not just here Mobile, but when you look to the business world, is there one person that motivates you or that you look at and you think, yeah? Maybe it's somebody from shark tank or maybe it's someone you see from magazines.
Kenneth Havens:
I would say Elon Musk. He is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my entire life.
Marcus Neto:
He's crazy. He's from a different planet. He's-
Kenneth Havens:
He's not human.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
There's no way.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's funny because you think it's preposterous, but we have to remember like when Elon got started, and he started talking about going to Mars, like there was no commercial space travel period.
Kenneth Havens:
Period. Right.
Marcus Neto:
So it wasn't just like, there were a bunch of companies that were flying into space and he thought, "Well, it'd be kind of nice to go to Mars." It was "Commercial space travel doesn't exist. I now have to figure out how that works, and all the ins and outs." And there was no model to follow, and so... but you know what I mean? And a lot of people don't even realize like he's using his spaceships that are... he's cut the costs on them significantly. So he's using his contracts with the government and with other larger commercial organizations, to now he's floating some of his own ideas into space, right?
Kenneth Havens:
Right.
Marcus Neto:
And so he's putting up his own satellites for a mesh network for wifi, to be everywhere, at a low cost and stuff like this. It's just insane with this guy. I mean, he just thinks these things up and he's like, "Oh yeah." I think he's like the Dave Chappelle, from Chappelle show the scales where it's like, "I'm Rick James."
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah. That's right.
Marcus Neto:
He's "I'm Elon Musk, I'm going to go to Mars."
Kenneth Havens:
He just comes over with his own ideas. And like, I was listening to him on the Joe Rogan podcast, and he was like, "Tell me about this [inaudible 00:19:12]." He was like, "What about it?" [crosstalk 00:19:16] He was like, "I just thought it was cool." So to me it's like, a lot of times I take myself and I look at the problems in, our current business or whatever. And I take a step back and I'm like, "Look, we all on a totally different level."
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
And sometimes it kind of elevates my thinking to we've got to think past this, you know what I mean? And to be able to work backwards-
Marcus Neto:
The bigger picture.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah.
Marcus Neto:
Because someone [inaudible 00:19:40] so often times, I mean, let's be real, we're all terrestrial based. He's not even terrestrial based, so it's like our problems are insignificant compared to what he's dealing with, but are there any books, podcasts, people, or organizations that have been helpful in moving you forward?
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah. So to me, one of the best books ever written, two of the books, the Go-Giver is awesome. And really, it kind of like goes back to my heart for people. And I think that's one reason why I hit so strong. One of the quotes in the book was, "Does it make money is not a bad question. It's just a bad first question. Does it serve people? Should always be the first question."
Marcus Neto:
Nice.
Kenneth Havens:
And it's kind of the thought process of if we can serve and love people. I tell the employees, I'll call them from time to time. And I was like, "How do you feel about your investment here?" And they're like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "You spend more time here than what you do at home. Do you feel like you're making a good investment?" Because if you're going to invest your time and to me, I want to make sure that you feel like your investment, as well. The other book is The Game of Work. [crosstalk 00:20:49]. Awesome book I've read it like three times in a row, but its just... I was highlighting the parts that I liked, and then I figured out it was probably easier to like, just highlight the parts that I didn't find as significant, it's very easy read, but highly, highly recommended.
Marcus Neto:
Interesting. I'll check that one out because... and of course I'll lay it under my pillow and absorb it by osmosis because I don't read anymore, but that sounds interesting. So what's the most important thing that you've learned about running a business?
Kenneth Havens:
Most important thing.
Marcus Neto:
See these things, these are not easy questions people on the other side, think that, "Oh, they're just answering questions about their business. How hard could it be?" But when somebody asks a question like that, it's like...
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah.
Marcus Neto:
And if you don't have a good answer off the top of your head, we can move on and can maybe come back to it.
Kenneth Havens:
I don't really have a... I mean really... like out of the majority of the stuff that I literally try to think of like, how's this going to affect me? How's it going to affect my people? How's it going to affect my customers? How's it going to affect scalability? And it's like, I don't want to sound like I'm saying the same thing over and over and over again, but it's like, literally it goes [inaudible 00:22:12] to people.
Marcus Neto:
My people. Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
Right. Because my people... without them, we're literally nothing. Without the customers, which are people.
Marcus Neto:
How many clients did you say you're...?
Kenneth Havens:
6,500 customers-
Marcus Neto:
So you are not collecting trash by yourself for 6,500.
Kenneth Havens:
Oh, no. And what was crazy is that whenever I was like 16, 17 into, kind of running stuff, 18, 19 years old, when people would like act a donkey, I would just tell him like, "Look, Hey, if y'all don't want to do it, I'm young enough and dumb enough and strong enough, I'll just do it all myself."
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
And I got to a point where I was like, "I can't do that [inaudible 00:22:45]. I need these people.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah. Better started treating them better. So how do you like to unwind?
Kenneth Havens:
Man I love, really [inaudible 00:22:57], right? But no, I love to fish. I really enjoy just being outdoors.
Marcus Neto:
Fresh water or salty water?
Kenneth Havens:
I like to do both, but what I do most of, is freshwater. Sometimes it's not even about catching. It's just about just being out there.
Marcus Neto:
They call it fishing, not catching.
Kenneth Havens:
That's right. Just enjoying and yeah.
Marcus Neto:
Getting in, you mostly do that from the side of the water or you got a boat, that you go out on?
Kenneth Havens:
I got a boat and I live really close to Big Creek Lake.
Marcus Neto:
Okay. So yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
And so I'll watch it go out there. And I've literally taken times where I've just like rode out to the middle of the water and just cut the [inaudible 00:23:33] off and just sit there. And just cut the phone off, phone's not ringing no emails to respond to, nobody calling.
Marcus Neto:
There was a period of time where I would go. We had a, literally a pond in the subdivision, this was back in D.C. and I just needed when I... occasionally when I got home, I just needed to like grab a fishing pole, and walk over. And when I say pond, I mean, it's probably not much bigger than the property that this building sits on. So, like a half an acre or something like that. And so, but there was... I always knew where the fish were too, because I could always... you're just throwing in these various places, and so I would go and I would just like... it wasn't even about catching, it was just being out there, quiet. And that poor fish, I mean, there were like two or three larger fish and they were just bass.
Marcus Neto:
There were two or three larger fish that, you just catch them over and over and over again. And so they start... the joke is they get like calluses on their lips from being pulled in so many times, but there's just something really relaxing about that. I don't get a chance to do it much anymore, but it is fun for sure. So we'll have to get out on the boat and go out-
Kenneth Havens:
Sounds good.
Marcus Neto:
And have been in Big Greek Lake, but I've not been out on it. So we'll have to do that sometime. Now, where can people find out more information about A-1?
Kenneth Havens:
www.a1ms.us
Marcus Neto:
Very good. And Facebook?
Kenneth Havens:
Facebook, Instagram, not as active on Instagram, but really pretty active on Facebook and website-
Marcus Neto:
Which is a trashed on translate.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah. I'm good friends with Bradley Flowers. And he talks all the time about nobody wants to talk about insurance.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
And I was like, bro, like [crosstalk 00:25:18] nobody cares.
Marcus Neto:
Nobody cares.
Kenneth Havens:
I've literally had somebody telling me, they're like, "I know you like think this trash thing is cool, but like nobody cares." And I'm like-
Marcus Neto:
They just want it to go away.
Kenneth Havens:
Yeah. So it's kind of one of those things where nobody wants to have trash service, everybody has to have it. So it was kind of beneficial but not to be in that position. But to me, I try to just live off the fact of... I tell my guys all the time, "Hey, we're not a people company. No, we're not a trash company, we're a people company.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah.
Kenneth Havens:
That happens to offer a trash service. Especially in this pandemic, I've really tried to drive that home, because people went from your routine, you're a creature of habit, you wake up every day, you get breakfast, you go to the gym, you come to work, COVID hit and like everything stopped. People stopped going to work. There was nothing normal. And my thing is, I told the guys like here in the trash truck, come down straight at the same time of the day, like gives people a sense of normal. And sometimes you may be the only sense of normal that they have over the course of the day.
Marcus Neto:
That's a good point.
Kenneth Havens:
Hey, don't put the can in somebody's driveway on top of their flowers, make sure that you make it as convenient as possible. And the best, if when we're not providing our best service, people don't see us, people don't hear us, people don't know us, if they have to call there's a problem.
Marcus Neto:
Now it's amazing to me how even small things, so educating them about, how to put the trash receptacle back. So the homeowner is not inconvenience. That's huge. I don't know. Most organizations probably wouldn't care about that enough to even mention it, let alone have their people execute on it. So, well, I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast to wrap up any final thoughts or comments you'd like to share.
Kenneth Havens:
Hey, just thank you so much again, for the opportunity to be on the podcast. I've been a big fan of the podcast for a while. Listen to the majority of stuff the content has been put out.
Marcus Neto:
Very cool.
Kenneth Havens:
And thanks for the opportunity.
Marcus Neto:
Yeah. Well Kenneth, I appreciate your willingness to sit with me and share your journey as a business owner and entrepreneur. It's been great talking with you.
Kenneth Havens:
Thank you.
